Helldoor's Test Field | Interior

[fpedrogo]

Fer told that "use for glossy rays" is on for LC always

Yes, it is always ON in V-Ray 3 for Rhino

I hope we will get it back at the placed where most needed, but I'm not sure the team is reading the bug reports anymore.

Right now we are fixing bug, We may or may not change this in the future. We don't know right now. Some users like it and other user won't. So, it will stay like that for now.

[Helldoor]

Hi fpedrogo,

thanks for joining! I have three questions for you:

• In case you had time to read everything, that was written until now, you have probably seen the bug I came across, using the most recent beta: changing the settings of a duplicated material, also changes the setting of the native one. If you're not a reference person for this topic, please let me know, where to post about this bug.
• Could it be, that fur objects have a problem with materials or maybe receiving shadows? I tried making a furry rug, but the individual strand looks somehow translucent, although the assigned material isn't...
• Do you, as a dev, have some great tipps for interior rendering setup? As there aren't many tutorials and no 'textbook' about V-Ray for Rhino (I even contacted the fellow countrymen in the Sofia headquarters about it), sparing some struggles would be a great thing, imo.

Thanks in advance.

PS_ The Nosie Limit list is now updated with 0,01 vs 0,05. For me 0,05 is too noisy, even with a Denoiser.

[fpedrogo]

In case you had time to read everything, that was written until now, you have probably seen the bug I came across, using the most recent beta: changing the settings of a duplicated material, also changes the setting of the native one. If you're not a reference person for this topic, please let me know, where to post about this bug.

]
I'm unable to reproduce this issue. I duplicated one material and applied to another geometry. Started interactive render and changed: color, reflection color, glossiness, added refraction to the duplicated material and everything worked fine. Can you give me more information about your issue?

Could it be, that fur objects have a problem with materials or maybe receiving shadows? I tried making a furry rug, but the individual strand looks somehow translucent, although the assigned material isn't...

What kind of rug you are trying to make? What material you are using for the rug? I'm not seeing that behavior in my test.

Do you, as a dev, have some great tipps for interior rendering setup? As there aren't many tutorials and no 'textbook' about V-Ray for Rhino (I even contacted the fellow countrymen in the Sofia headquarters about it), sparing some struggles would be a great thing, imo.

Here is a link where you could find a very nice book of V-Ray. The author also have a V-Ray for Rhino version. http://www.cirosannino.it/en/
We are also working in a series of V-Ray tutorials based on V-Ray 3 for Rhino. One of those video is related to interior rendering. You could also visit our youtbe channel and find some videos related to interior rendering. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOj...JxktIOGXWFJhRw
You could apply the same technique in most of the video into V-Ray for Rhino

[Helldoor]

Hi fpedrogo and big thanks for the precious infos & links. I guess I'll buy this book very soon, and as for the bugs - tomorrow I'll check them once again (maybe I was doing something wrong?) and describe in detail.

[Helldoor]

The first time I tried rendering using Brute Force in primary, I had to brake it off, as it seemed to last forever. I was however too curious, what the differences in the outcomes of BF+LC and IM+LC would be, so I rendered once again over night. This seems to have been the right decision, as it took almost 9 hours, rendering with BF+LC..

Here the comparison:

_ [U]Render Engine Combination Test | Brute Force+LightCache vs Irradiance Map+Light Cache [Renderer: High / Noise: 0,01, Denoiser:On / Render Output: 1600x1130]

| Irradiance Map (primary) + Light Cache (secondary) [IM: -3/-1 Subdivs: 70 Interpolation: 40 | LC: Subdivs: 1500 / Sample: 0,02 / Retrace: 4] : 00:46 h
| Brute Force (primary) + Light Cache (secondary) [LC: Subdivs: 1500 / Sample: 0,02 / Retrace: 4] : 08:55 h

Same scene. Same lighting. Same setup. Different engine approach. Why?

@fpedrogo: Why is there such a huge difference in the render times, without such a difference in the render quality? Am I doing it wrong, or is the combination of BF+LC thought for something else (exterior, jewelery,...)? I'd be very glad to hear your opinion on this. Thanks in advance.

[Micha]

Great, this test points to central question for me too. Your render time are approx. like the times for my 10k renderings. My current project needs approx. 40 renderings in this size.

Often I render images for 300 dpi prints and it doesn't matter that the IM GI solution is at this high resolution (IM -2), most important is, that geometric details are at full resolution. That's the advantage of GI interpolation.

I'm very curious for an answer, why BF is so much recommended now. I thought BF would be good for animation, but for animation the IM workflow is recommended.

[Helldoor]

I often also have to render A3, 300 dpi for print. So you'd recommend a IM Min/Max -3/-2 with higher interpolation - 60 maybe? And the subdivs? And does this refer to interiors or to exteriors also?

Next I'll check up the issues I had with the fur object and the duplicated mats and later post some results.

[Micha]

Higher undersampling for high res works fine here, for example I render 4000x2500 with -3/-2. The GI ambient occlusion helps to keep the details. Subdivs doesn't need to be changed by resolution change. If you don't have splotches at low res than it will finer at large output too. Be care full with interpolation, it kills render time. It's for blurring the IM against splotches.

Example:

* exterior 50..70 subdivs and interpolation 20 (30 if needed)
* interior 150..200.. subdivs and interpolation 30 (40 if needed and high subdivs doesn't help so much)

[Helldoor]

Cool, thanks Micha! Notice how the BF+LC image is brighter and softer ovarall, but also in dark areas? Do you have any idea what to do to achieve something similar with the IM+LC and still having good render times?
I purchased the book fpedrogo suggested and will also bring some knowhow out of it in near future.

[Micha]

BF is brighter? Only in the book shelf or? There you see the more detailed shadow-light situation of the GI. "Softer overall" - I don't see it at the BF.

[Helldoor]

BF is brighter? Only in the book shelf or? There you see the more detailed shadow-light situation of the GI. "Softer overall" - I don't see it at the BF.

You're right, 'overall' doesn't really describe it. Try downloading both pictures and after that switching between them in the Windows preview. I become the impression, that BC is stricter and more precise with lighting and details. Some of the dark areas (cooking island or areas near the door with the guy in the back) seem somehow better lit by BF, but also a bit raw, whereas the IM become somehow blury in-depth, but the IM lights seem a bit too harsh. These however are small details, that become better with a higher resolution. Also, the difference in the render times doesn't really make up for that.
I'm really excited about fpedrogo's opinion.

[Grigio18]

try these settings with brute force + light cache


noise limit: 0.02
min samples: 1
max samples: 32

Anti aliasing filter: 1.5 lanzcos

light cache:
subdivs: 3000
size: 0.01
retrace: 8

Denoiser: custom

strenght 1
radius 5

[Micha]

@Helldoor: I didn't try it, but you could beta test it - at the materials there is an option "use irradiance map". Disable this for the guy material in the background. Now it should be rendered with BF also in LC-IM mode.

[Micha]

@Grigio18: Which shading rate do you recommend?

[Grigio18]

The advice of chaos group at the moment is to leave it to 6...

I am not sure the new algorithm is working equally in rhino and in max, there is something strange...